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Democracy, Human Rights, Refugees: Briefing on the D.R.C.
MR. FEINGOLD: Well, we are so pleased, all of us in the U.S.
Government, State Department, that the Secretary made the important
choice to come here and to also go to Angola later today. These are
interconnected visits. Coming here is a statement about how pleased we
are about the progress that the Democratic Republic of the Congo has
made in particular in the last year. Their economic growth is one of
the highest in the world. Yes, it's on a low base, but it is positive
growth.
QUESTION: What percentage growth annually?
MR. FEINGOLD: The latest quarter was 8 percent, they've had 10
percent. I want to check those figures, but they are positive growth
figures, and Prime Minister Matata has been given credit for working
with the president to move forward in that direction.
Their military performed admirably in this past year, a military that
frankly in the past has not always received the highest reviews, but
they performed admirably in going after one of the most important
threats to the security of the country and going after the M23 in
conjunction with MONUSCO and their intervention brigade. This was not
expected that it would go that well and be that complete of a victory.
So that was an important step for a country that needs to have a
credible and competent military in order to govern the eastern part of
the country in particular, that it's been besieged by instability and
violence.
At the same time, they demonstrated a strong diplomatic capacity where
they sent a top-notch negotiating team to the Kampala talks, and we
were deeply involved, including the Secretary himself on occasion,
with phone calls and bringing that to a conclusion. It was very
difficult, but it did lead to the Nairobi Declarations.
So this is a moment where the D.R.C., despite its many challenges,
particularly in the eastern part of the country, can build on its
successes. And the Secretary wants to congratulate them on this and
discuss those aspects.
There are a couple of things that are particularly important in making
that momentum continue. One is all the armed groups have to be
pursued. The M23's success was a prelude to what is the ongoing
operations against the ADF, or ADF Nalu, a Ugandan-based group in
Northern – North Kivu. And those are difficult operations that have
been continuing, combining the FARDC's efforts along with MONUSCO.
But the third major group that has to be pursued, frankly in my view,
the top priority, is going after the FDLR. And the Secretary already
discussed this with Foreign Minister Tshibanda, will discuss it with
President Kabila today. The FDLR is the group that includes those who
were involved, and are still around who are involved in the genocide,
the genociders. They're just a few hours from Rwanda, where this
horrible crime was committed. They have been involved in very
significant crimes and violence, including sexually based violence in
eastern Congo.
And in addition, the whole idea of this intervention brigade and
pursuing these groups was that the intervention brigade would go after
all our groups. So that has to include those that Rwanda has a
particular concern about as well as the others. And we pledged –
MONUSCO, the United States, all of us, the UN – we pledged that this
would include going after the FDLR. Those operations need to be taken
seriously. The planning has been done. But President Kabila needs to
give the green light to say it is time to take them on militarily, at
the same time that we work to create the modalities so that if the
FDLR is truly ready to surrender, we're ready to do that. And we are
working on that as well, but the two have to go hand in hand. Neither
of them can operate on their own.
So that's one priority. The other priority is the Secretary will be
discussing with President Kabila, as he's already done with Foreign
Minister Tshibanda, the upcoming cycle of elections. Critical fact
here is that the world was pleasantly surprised – I remember at the
time being chairman of the Africa subcommittee in the United States
Senate – we were pleasantly surprised by the success and credibility
of the 2006 presidential elections. President Kabila came to power in
a very difficult situation where people maybe did not expect that
somebody who came into power that way would be able to pull that off,
but they did.
Unfortunately, in 2011, it was a different story. The international
community witnessed an election that lacked the indices of free, fair,
and transparent elections, and was largely regarded as flawed, as some
people in the country claim it was rigged.
So this is a critical thing that the presidential elections are coming
up in 2016. There needs to be a series of elections held between now
and 2016 that hopefully will include the first local elections in the
history of this nation – they've never had election of local officials
– the election of provincial leaders, including the governors, and
then the presidential election, where a two-term limit is explicitly
stated in the constitution. We believe that it is very important for
the future of this country and its stability that that constitution be
respected.
We also believe that everyone should work together – the Congolese
Government, the opposition party members, the international donors –
to make sure that a clear schedule for the elections is agreed to, a
timeline that it is held to, and that the budgeting for it is
transparent, and that those elections proceed and be finished,
including the presidential election, in 2016 without any change in the
constitution. That is our belief with regard to all of the countries
in the region and all across the world, that it is better to adhere to
such a constitutional provision and to not endeavor to change it for
any individual – that that is a formula for instability, not
stability.
QUESTION: Can I just --
MR. FEINGOLD: Yeah. That's basically the two things I wanted to
mention. Now you can ask.
QUESTION: So is that a polite way of saying the United States does not
want Kabila to change the constitution and go for a third term?
MR. FEINGOLD: We don't want – we believe that the constitution should
stand, as in all the other countries in the region, in the Great
Lakes. This is a message we have given consistently. The President of
the United States, President Obama, when he was here last year, made a
very important statement. What Africa needs is not strong men, but
strong institutions. And one of those strong institutions is a
credible method of executive succession, executive term limits. And in
most cases, things have gone much better in those countries that have
followed that, particularly in Africa, from my experience, having
worked in this area more than other areas in the world.
QUESTION: But given that he's been quite cooperative over the last
year, is he looking for a pass from you guys?
MR. FEINGOLD: There certainly hasn't been any comment to that effect,
and when it comes to democracy, it's about the people. The people of
this country have a right to have their constitution respected. They
have a right to choose their president in accordance with their
constitution. The constitution here provides for two terms. As I'd
like to say, it's not as tough a provision as the one in the United
States. Bill Clinton can't run for president again. This provision
actually is only two terms in a row. This is more like the – many
other countries. We have a particularly tough provision. That
provision should be respected.
QUESTION: What happened between the 2006 and the 2010 elections that you said --
MR. FEINGOLD: 2011.
QUESTION: Oh, 2011, right. You said that 2006 went well and 2011 was
not seen as credible.
MR. FEINGOLD: There are a variety of analyses of this. Some suggest
that the government here itself sought to handle these elections on
their own and did not do all the things that were necessary. Others
have suggested the international community was not adequately engaged
early enough. So there's plenty of blame to go around.
This time, the international community will be engaged. In fact, in
particular, the United States, as the Secretary will announce today,
is very serious about making sure we play our role, a significant
role, in making sure that there are resources available. The Congolese
Government has said that they will handle 80 percent of the cost of
these elections, but another 20 percent needs to come from donors from
around the world. I have taken the view and have gotten tremendous
support from the Secretary that we should be upfront about our
willingness to help to make sure the other donors also are upfront
about their willingness to help.
QUESTION: So can – sorry.
MR. FEINGOLD: That – we have to avoid this chicken – this sort of
chicken-and-egg thing where one side says, "Well, we want to know what
you're going to do, but first we got to know what – you tell us what
you're going to do and then we'll tell you what we're going to do." I
want and the Secretary wants the Congolese to know that if they create
credible elections with proper timeframe, that – as long as that's
happening, that we will help, and I hope that we will – our help will
be considered significant.
QUESTION: What kind of costs are we talking about here?
MR. FEINGOLD: I'm going to let the Secretary discuss that later today.
QUESTION: Okay. He plans to?
MR. FEINGOLD: He'll be talking later today.
QUESTION: All right.
QUESTION: To what does President Kabila attribute his reluctance to
give the green light to take on the FDLR militarily? As you say, they
are the original genocider, they've been around 20 years.
MR. FEINGOLD: Well, he has consistently said he knows that it is not
only his responsibility, but in the interest of his country to remove
them from their presence in their country. It's an illegal armed
group. It's harmful to the country. The D.R.C. is a signatory to the
Peace, Security, Cooperation Framework that requires this. He will
tell you and I'm sure will tell the Secretary that it's difficult
taking on all these different groups, that the operations against the
ADF have been – consumed significant resources of his military. But he
also has told me, as recently as a few weeks ago, that he intends to
give the green light.
But that needs to happen, and so we hope to have a good conversation,
that the Secretary will have a good conversation about exactly when
and how that can happen. I'll just repeat again, as Martin Kobler and
I did yesterday and when we spoke to the Secretary, that MONUSCO is
ready, the FIB is ready, it is time for it to happen.
QUESTION: Can you drill that into specifics about how many people
would be needed to do that kind of operation, what kind of money the
United States would be able to provide to really go after these --
MR. FEINGOLD: Well, we are already the largest supporter of MONUSCO,
and I don't have any particular information about how much that
particular operation will be. I believe the resources are there for
this operation to occur. That's not the problem. The problem is making
sure the green light is given. I've seen the plans. It's ready to go.
QUESTION: What's AFRICOM's relevance?
MR. FEINGOLD: Nothing in particular.
QUESTION: They're not training, they're not providing intelligence,
they're not helping anyone?
MR. FEINGOLD: No, MONUSCO is handling their own operation. They have
their overall force that's been there for a while. The FIB is the
force of 3,000 people particularly devoted to this kind of activity
with a strong mandate, about a thousand troops each from Malawi, South
Africa, and Tanzania. And they performed well with regard to the M23.
Some of them have been helping, I believe, with regard to the ADF.
Yeah, they have, I believe, right? They've been helping with the ADF?
They've been (inaudible)?
PARTICIPANT: Yeah.
MR. FEINGOLD: Yeah. And so this is a reasonably financed – they can't
do everything on their own, but there's a lot of resources behind
this, and I think they have the capacity combined with the FARDC. This
is not some (inaudible) whole new commitment. This is just the next
task that needs to be taken on.
QUESTION: What about finishing the M23? Rwanda and Uganda are going to
have to give up some of the leaders of that group, it's my
understanding, to stand – to face some sort of Congolese judicial
accountability. Do you believe that President Museveni and President
Kagame will be willing to turn over those people?
MR. FEINGOLD: I'm reasonably optimistic about the follow-up on the
so-called Nairobi Declarations. This has been a little slow, but we
got a good update both from the ICGLR and from Foreign Minister
Tshibanda. It appears that the modalities for most of the people
involved, some 1,300 in Uganda and some 600 in Rwanda, are underway.
Most of the individuals will be eligible for and apparently are
already signing these amnesty declarations and they are being
processed. This means that many of these individuals should, in the
not-too-distant future, be able to start returning to the D.R.C. where
appropriate and go into the demobilization programs and hopefully
reintegration where appropriate.
Yes, there are individuals that would not fit in that category, and
those individuals should face justice if they have committed war
crimes or crimes against humanity. That's the provision of the amnesty
law. And I suspect that a reasonable number of those individuals will
be returning to the D.R.C. for that process as well, although some
possibly could be involved with other forms of justice too.
QUESTION: Mixed too?
MR. FEINGOLD: Mixed – yeah, well, that's right. As a part of this, in
addition to the fact that the amnesty law was passed – and this is
another example of the good things that happened in the D.R.C. It's
not always easy dealing with congress or a parliament. But they did
the job. The Nairobi Declarations were signed in – on December 12th.
By the end of January, they had passed and promulgated this amnesty
law. That was a critical first step to create – otherwise, none of
this follow-up could be really occurring.
The next step is something where the United States has been really
urging the D.R.C. to do something that it appears they're very eager
to do now as well, and that's to create something called mixed
chambers or mixed courts. These are Congolese courts. They're not
international courts. But they're courts that would include
international judges, typically African judges but people with
background in international law, who would handle these kinds of
cases. They would be a majority Congolese on the court at both the
trial and the appellate level, but it would include the expertise of
the international community to make sure that these prosecutions and
all the convictions or whatever may come out of it is internationally
recognized. We also believe it is beneficial to the future development
of the Congolese judiciary.
So, we – our government has been very active in advising and working
on this, and we think it's outstanding that there's a chance that this
legislation providing for these mixed courts could pass in this
current legislative session of the D.R.C. parliament. This is – would
be important to making these examples where justice has to be done
actually occur.
QUESTION: Is this session, this legislative session, is this this
calendar year, or does it extend beyond the calendar –
MR. FEINGOLD: It, I think, goes till June.
PARTICIPANT: Yeah, it's current.
QUESTION: Oh.
MR. FEINGOLD: Started in March.
PARTICIPANT: I think (inaudible).
MR. FEINGOLD: So I'm referring to just the session, as opposed to the whole.
QUESTION: Oh.
QUESTION: Can I follow up on something? The mixed courts, is that – is
there any precedent for that? And also, when you talked about the
issue of term limits before, I can't recall – does the United States
usually take a position on countries' internal constitutional
processes of term limits? I can't remember if the United States comes
out and says, "You don't extend, don't – " I don't remember that
happening. Is that the common –
MR. FEINGOLD: Well, first of all, I believe a good precedent – and you
could talk to Ambassador Stephen Rapp about this in more detail – a
good precedent is Senegal for the mixed chambers, which – he often
refers to how that was approached. It's different than, for example,
Sierra Leone, which was an international court that was officed, or
set, in Sierra Leone. This is a Congolese court. And the same thing
was done with regard to one major prosecution in Senegal.
The United States has consistently said throughout the world and, in
particular, in Africa – and I was involved in this on many occasions
as a member of the Senate – where we would suggest to leaders directly
that it is our experience and our thought that it is far better for
your country to maintain term limits for the executive if it is in
your constitution, that it is as a destabilizing influence, and it's
reputationally damaging to a growing nation to change that. I
personally delivered that message to many African leaders. It's not
the most fun thing to do. I remember once delivering this message to
the president of Djibouti, and he said something to the effect of, "I
hope I don't have to continue doing this." He seemed a little down
that day.
But this is – and sometimes we've had a successful role in persuading
people who may not have been excited about leaving that, really, it's
part of their legacy, and that there are great things that leaders of
countries can do after they have been presidents of their country.
So we respect the sovereignty of countries, we understand they can
create their own constitutional provision. We didn't always have
executive term limits. But it is our judgment that stability and
democracy and growth of the governance, democratic governance of
countries, is best served by following those provisions.
QUESTION: And just to clarify, these are term limits for two terms in
a row. He could come back in a couple of years later and --
MR. FEINGOLD: That is my understanding of the Congolese constitution.
QUESTION: Okay. And then also, what is the U.S.' position on – as I
understand it, there is a move for indirect elections upcoming, versus
direct elections?
MR. FEINGOLD: We have not taken a formal position on this. I can tell
you that I spent nine days just listening to people all over this
country, particularly in the east. There was almost unanimous
opposition to the idea of indirect election of provincial governors.
As a personal matter, if somebody in the United States knows the
history of our indirect election of United States senators, that was a
terrific way to have horrible corruption that led to the direct
election of United States senators. We had even an interesting moment
in Illinois not too long ago that had to do with this issue.
So I think – I personally think it would be something they might want
to avoid. I think it could be destabilizing as well, just as a
personal viewpoint. But I'm not speaking here that this is our
official U.S. Government view. But it seems to me the popular election
of officials is better. But this is not of the same status, frankly,
as the executive term limits.
QUESTION: Okay. And who is putting the idea forward of the direct
elections, if it's facing --
MR. FEINGOLD: It has been suggested by the head of the CENI, the
C-E-N-I, the election commission, Abbe Malu Malu, who provided two
choices to the national parliament. His first choice was direct local
elections followed by – the second year by indirect provincial
elections. In other words, the local officials elected and then
presidential. His second alternative involved having the provincial
elections in the same year as the presidential elections, and making
them direct. And these matters are being considered, as I understand,
by the Congolese parliament at this time.
QUESTION: Is it more difficult to make the argument for respecting
executive term limits in Kinshasa, when this president's main rival
looks to Kigali and Kampala, and two guys that have been there way
longer than two terms?
MR. FEINGOLD: It is a message that has to be consistently delivered
throughout the region. It is fair for any of the presidents in the
region to expect that we would take the position, same position, in
all the countries in the region. I am special envoy to the region, and
this is a message that we believe applies in all situations equally.
QUESTION: This is – I mean, you've been saying already to the
president, this is not a new thing that's going to happen today, the
first time --
MR. FEINGOLD: I was asked about this in Kinshasa in January, and spoke
very clearly that this was our position. I know the Secretary has
already repeated this to the foreign minister yesterday. There are no
surprises here. We respect the sovereignty of this nation, and
certainly do not believe we should be directing the way they run their
country, but we do not believe in, at the last minute, telling people
our thoughts about this. We are up front as Americans, and we are up
front in saying it is unwise for the future positive movement of this
country to change this constitution.
This country has shown that it was capable of having a presidential
election in 2006, which defied the expectations of the international
community. It would be a terrific thing that it could show that it can
follow its constitution and hold free, fair, and transparent elections
with the opposition in advance, as we agree to these modalities for
the election. It would be a major step forward for the role that I
think the D.R.C. is destined to play in Africa and throughout the
world.
QUESTION: You haven't spoken about the LRA yet. Could you bring us up
to speed on that?
MR. FEINGOLD: It's not within my mandate.
QUESTION: Oh, okay.
MR. FEINGOLD: I wrote the legislation as a senator relating to this.
My senior advisor worked on this issue in the past. I'm pleased that
the United States is continuing its efforts in that regard, but I'm
not the guy to be holding forth on that today.
QUESTION: Okay.
MS. PSAKI: All right.
MR. FEINGOLD: Okay. Thanks.
http://uspolitics.einnews.com/pr_news/203161368/democracy-human-rights-refugees-briefing-on-the-d-r-c
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