Re: [rwanda_revolution] Kayumba Nyamwasa: Kagame government days are numbered.

 

Kagame government days are numbered – Gen Nyamwasa

Interview
Thursday, 28 November 2013 22:39
Written by Robert Mukombozi

Three years after an assassination attempt on him in South Africa,
the former Rwandan army Chief of Staff, Gen Kayumba Nyamaswa, has
finally broken his silence has spoken about his assassination ordeal,
bush war memories, and how President Paul Kagame has betrayed the
purpose for Rwanda's liberation struggle.

He spoke to Robert Mukombozi in Johannesburg.

Gen Nyamwasa, the world was shocked by news of your shooting during
the last world cup. What exactly happened on that day?

I was coming from a shopping mall and when we were entering the gate I
saw somebody with a gun and the driver opened the window on his side
and quickly the person cocked the pistol and shot me in the stomach
and thereafter there was a scuffle between him and me and I was able
to survive the assassination because during the scuffle the gun was
dislocated.

Thereafter, I was taken to hospital and the rest is history.

From the court proceedings, it would appear that some of the staff in
your household were carefully involved. Had you suspected them?

Not at all. I really had full trust in all my staff members especially
accused number four, who was my driver. On the day I fled Rwanda, he
is the one who drove me across the border into Uganda and I trusted
him. He stayed in Uganda while I proceeded to South Africa.

Eventually when he told me that his life was in danger in Kampala like
many other Rwandan refugees who have been abducted from Uganda, indeed
I facilitated him to come over (to South Africa).

Thereafter he stayed with us and I trusted him entirely. We treated
him as part of our family but it turned out that he had been bought by
the government of Rwanda. In the government of Rwanda nobody could
have picked money from his/her own pocket to finance an operation like
that. These people did not know me and I did not know them either.

So, for them to have carried out that operation against someone they
did not know then they must have acted on behalf of someone else and
that must be the government from which I run away.

But most important now is that these people are using very expensive
lawyers in this country. Who meets the bill? Before their involvement
in this assassination attempt against my life, they cannot show that
they had any business or had a job and yet they are able to meet very
expensive legal fees.

After the attempt on your life, do you feel safe here?

I am not the only one who is under threat from Rwanda all the time. If
you read newspapers in Uganda, and if you can talk to my compatriots
there, some of them have been abducted, others have been executed
while others are hidden in safe houses. It is really a fight for most
Rwandese in exile; so, mine is not an exception.

Do you hope to fight back?

Well, we are already fighting back, only that we are not using the
means that our adversary is using. For us, we are using peaceful means
of change and we believe that Rwandans will come together and fight a
dictatorship and it is not a peculiar or unique situation.

It has happened everywhere else in the world where people have come up
to fight the regime that is dictatorial in nature and killing people.
We also formed an organisation called the Rwanda National Congress and
together with others we formed an alliance with the United Democratic
Forces of Rwanda (FDU-Inkingi) and Amahoro and we believe together we
will be able to galvanise efforts of Rwandese and remove the regime.

So, you are not looking at military plans...

No. But that will be a result of probably a situation that would
degenerate into a kind of situation that has happened in other
countries where peaceful means have been employed but the dictatorship
pushes people in a different direction. We have not come to that.

There is an increasing spate of kidnappings of Rwandan refugees
especially students and former soldiers exiled especially in East
Africa on accusations that they are working for you to destabilise
Rwanda...

The accusations are not true. I would first of all begin with my own
brother who has been in prison for the last three years. If I was
working with anybody in Rwanda, the first person probably I would have
worked with would have been my own brother but when I fled I did not
take him along with me and I would have gone to his house and picked
him even when I left, it took them about six months after which he was
arrested and incarcerated.

So all these people, they can't say that they are working for me. But
there is no doubt that there could be some people in Rwanda who
support the Rwanda National Congress, not necessarily [working for]
Kayumba.

According to sources in the Rwanda Defence Forces, President Kagame is
paranoid about you controlling some factions of the army. Is this fear
legitimate?

Well, I commanded the army, there is no doubt about that. I was a very
influential member within the Rwanda Patriotic Front. I had very good
friends and the plight that visited me is also a plight that also
other people in Rwanda are meeting today.

Essentially it is not about me, it is about the cause for which I am
fighting and I know essentially within the Rwanda Patriotic Front, and
within the army, there are people who support what I do not because of
me but because of what I stand for. What we want is liberation; if it
comes from me, well and good but even if it comes from a different
side, I am sure they will be able to embrace it.

Talking about liberation, you had a cordial relationship with Kagame
during the RPF bush war and subsequent years in his government. Kagame
now says you were terrorising his country and lacked accountability.
What exactly broke this rapport?

President Paul Kagame knows that we did a lot of things together and a
lot of my colleagues but between me and him, yes there was a deep
relationship. At one point in time I think I helped him when everybody
else would not have wanted to and that is a fact. I wrote about it
twice.

He is aware of the situation and that is probably why we had a strong
relationship. I saved him out of a situation where people would have
probably wanted him to perish.

He [Kagame] is aware of the situation, that was the beginning of the
closeness. But as far as I am concerned, the relationship kept
deteriorating [and] it was about the ideological thinking of the RPF.

At one time it came to a point where the RPF ceased to market and
publicise and promote itself as an organisation and had to be
substituted by popularising and campaigning for an individual who is
Paul Kagame and that was something I never believed in.

Secondly, there was the issue of Dr Joseph Sebarenzi (former Secretary
General of RPF) who was persecuted using fabricated charges. I refused
to support that trend and Paul Kagame was not happy about it. Then
there were extrajudicial killings, which were being carried out around
Rwanda using the Directorate of Military Intelligence and the
Republican Guard and Kagame would be in the know and I was not aware
about what was going on.

After committing those extrajudicial killings, they would come out and
falsely implicate other people. Thirdly, there was the issue of
Pasteur Bizimungu. Mr Bizimungu [when he was still president] was
persecuted and lots of charges were fabricated against him.

The Directorate of Military Intelligence, which was under Jack Nziza
and others that time, they thought they should have him imprisoned and
I challenged them until I went to the United Kingdom for a course and
eventually the man was taken to prison. Basically the relationship
between me and Kagame started souring from 1997 and by 2003 it
completely broke down.

You say you saved Mr Kagame's life several times during the bush war
struggle; how?

At one point in time we were at one place called Nkana [northern
Rwanda] in current Byumba district and I think it was in December 1990
and we had lost a battle. When we lost the battle, the forces
withdrew, Kagame did not know that the forces had actually withdrawn
to Uganda. I went there to collect casualties [and] I found Kagame
hiding in a banana plantation.

I convinced some of our friends that we should go and rescue him and
get him from there. But because of his nature and after the death of
Maj Gen Fred Rwigema, people did not like and they were saying 'just
ignore [him]'. I thought that was not the right thing to do and I took
it upon myself to go back.

I went back and collected him. He was there confused; he did not know
where the forces were and he did not know where to go himself. Then
the next day in another place called Nkanyantanga [also in northern
Rwanda]. In the night the enemy was surrounding us. He was sleeping in
the tent and he did not know what was going on.

I had information and intelligence and we were able to fight our way
out and the next day we lost the battle. I came back and picked him
from the tent and hid him in Uganda in someone's home.

Some of the officers we had in Nkanyantanga subjected him to a lot of
open ridicule; that they do not want him. And some of the officers who
ridiculed him that time are still serving in the Rwandan army as
senior officers today but I will not mention their names for their
security but they know themselves.

Had it not been for me and late Col William Bagire, they would have
beaten him thoroughly.

Are you saying his subsequent leadership of the Rwandan Patriotic
Army/Front was an accident?

Definitely it was an accident. The legitimate leader was late Maj Gen
Fred Rwigema. We lost a person, we lost a leader, and we lost a
charismatic person. Obviously if Kagame was so crucial in the planning
and execution of the Rwandan liberation, Maj Gen Rwigema would not
have allowed [him] to go for the course in the United States of
America.

Are there officers you think would have been in a better position to
steer Rwanda to real liberation? And is there a possibility they
could take the wheel of power in Rwanda and change the country's
course?

There are very many of them but they are completely marginalised. You
can never find them now in the political establishment of Rwanda. It
is a tragedy.

But Kagame has maintained that the bitterness between both of you is
based entirely on your undermining of his government and lack of
accountability.

What else can he say? He has said that about everybody who has fled
the country. He uses mainly charges against people who are opposed to
his dictatorial leadership. Either you are a genocidaire, terrorist or
corrupt. That is standard procedure and I happen to be part of that
victimisation.

When you look at the sentencing that was meted to the four of us;
sentencing me for 24 years in prison in absentia, it is not a charge
of corruption. There is nothing because I was not corrupt and in any
case if I had been corrupt, they would have charged me in a court of
law when I was still in government. It is obviously a lie and Kagame
has always lived by deceit but time is running out.

Talking about time running out for the Kigali establishment. You have
commanded Rwandan troops in DR Congo before. Do you think Rwanda is
involved in DR Congo (M23 war)?

True, I was involved in the DR Congo war in 1997-2002 and yes the
Rwandan troops were and are still heavily involved in the war there.
Even today, Rwandan soldiers are still in DR Congo. And the other
thing that is very important is that there is nothing like M23. M23
does not exist; it is the concoction of the government of Rwanda.

Are you optimistic the stabilisation force in DR Congo now boosted by
Tanzania and South Africa could eventually bring Rwanda to account for
her atrocities committed there?

You can never lie to the world forever. Kagame's lies have now come to
the fore. He can no longer hide so the international community;
Southern African Development Community (SADC) and everybody else have
come to the realisation that Paul Kagame has always used genocide as
pretext.

Instead of using it [genocide] as a tragedy that befell Rwandese, it
has become a political and diplomatic weapon. He has used it to invade
DR Congo and is also using it against his neighbours. The lie is now
over and it is time to call a spade a spade and I applaud the
international community to have come to the realisation. It may be
late but as the adage says better late than never.

Some of the assets of South Africa-based Rwandan multimillionaire,
Tribert Rujugiro, such as the $20 million Union Trade Centre, are
being frozen by the Rwandan government on allegations he could be
supporting your cause.

Nyamwasa is being used as a pretext for eliminating all those people
whom Paul Kagame does not want. In the 1990s it was Mr Sebarenzi; they
would kill anybody who is associated with him. Later on it became
Pasteur Bizimungu and then Tribert Rujugiro. Actually Rujugiro ran
away from Rwanda before me and then later on it is me.

Anything else you would like to add?

Yes. I would like to inform Rwandans and friends of Rwanda across
Africa and the international community that we will be driving real
liberation to the country soon. Institutions of government in Rwanda
have been hijacked.

The judiciary does not function; it has been compromised. The
Parliament is owned and serves the interests of only one man and that
is Paul Kagame. The government in Rwanda is an institution that is
completely owned by one man and he does what he wants.

Now dictatorship has its own expiry date and I think the Rwandan
people are now disgusted, they are disgruntled and they are
disappointed. I would like to assure Rwandans and friends of our
cause that dictatorship is going to be removed in Rwanda soon.

Robert Mukombozi is an international investigative journalist based in
Australia. He can be reached on email: rmukombozi@gmail.com.


Comments⁠ ⁠

#1 Betty Long Cap ⁠2013-11-28 23:58

Is what Kayumba Nyamaswa says about Rwanda also true about Uganda?

The judiciary does not function; it has been compromised. The
Parliament is owned and serves the interests of only one man and that
is [Museveni]. The government in [Uganda] is an institution that is
completely owned by one man and he does what he wants.

Now dictatorship has its own expiry date and I think the [Ugandan]
people are now disgusted, they are disgruntled and they are
disappointed. I would like to assure [Ugandans] and friends of our
cause that dictatorship is going to be removed in [Uganda] soon.

http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28866:kagame-government-days-are-numbered--gen-nyamwasa&catid=53:interview&Itemid=67

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